Comments on PreciousASL: Diseases Of Schools For The Deaf

Which colleges train teachers in bi-bi methodology...

2008-06-08T06:20:00.000-07:00

Which colleges train teachers in bi-bi methodology?

Deaf Ed Teacher Prep programs that list their philosophy as bilingual/bicultural on deafed.net

(note: some programs -- which may be bibi programs -- did not specify their philosophy for this list)

* Boston University
* Lamar University
* McDaniel College
* University of California, San Diego
* University of Hawai'i at Manoa
* Utah State University, Logan
* Western Oregon University

Source: http://deafed.net/PageText.asp?hdnPageId=120

CAEBER Preservice Training: Star Online Project

"In addition to training inservice teachers, CAEBER has developed a college curriculum for preservice teachers, called STAR Online. STAR Online is a three-semester college curriculum that incorporates both online and in-class features, to be used by teacher-educators at university deaf education teacher preparation programs to prepare preservice teachers in ASL/English bilingual instructional theories and techniques.

Seven universities currently use the curriculum from online courses:

* Gallaudet University
* Lamar University
* McDaniel College
* Western Oregon University
* University of Tulsa
* California State University, Northridge
* University of Hawaii

Two universities, Gallaudet University and Lamar University, utilize the full online components while the other universities use parts of the online components and online curriculum as meets their needs."

Source: http://caeber.gallaudet.edu/preservice.aspx

"You probably don't know that for a fact because I...

2008-06-03T18:10:00.000-07:00

"You probably don't know that for a fact because I know teachers DO talk about students while conversing without signing which is very reason why they elect not to sign. Indeed, it is not the case every time, but happens pretty often."

Yes, that did happen to me, I knew these two teachers were talking about me and others in the front of us. I stood up and told the class that they were exploiting us. That was 25 years ago.. Rox is right, go in private no matter.

But I do a good point about not being able to listen in or see others' conversation, this is not ok. So, do we get cart or an interpreter? Nothing is perfect, it is not ok for speakers not to be able to use their natural spoken language because some of us do not have access to it? That is why I settle for a simple rule, no talking about anyone unless in private. Then for the rest, "Hey you must have a great joke, share it with us pls!"

"It is interesting about your audiological reading immersion. Do you see success in this methodology?"

Yes definitely for people who are more auditory oriented, they are brain wired this way. From what I see my son doing in reading and writing, his memory depends on sounds he latched on when listening and "voicing it out" while reading books. An example, I asked my son, hey what is that odd looking character's name in chapter 2? He said, oh, then started mouthing words searching for a name that he can remember through auditory processing. I do not read like this but I respect his approach despite his being fluent ASL signer and being culturally Deaf like me. Interesting.

Another example: During evaluation for his reading processes, a speech audiologist gave him two - three different sounds spelled non-word word. She asked him to place color blocks according to what he hears. She started with bsm, then sbm, then mbs switching sounds in places. My son switched color blocks accordingly and up to 5 different sounds, he got 85 out of this test doing better than some hearing children who are more visual learner. Interesting? : )

He will take listening-reading sessions this summer twice every week so that he be better prepared for his 3rd, 4th grade classes when things go faster or I would have him go to more ASL oriented program.

PreciousASL,I got that info from Genie Gertz... I ...

2008-06-03T15:27:00.000-07:00

PreciousASL,
I got that info from Genie Gertz... I did ask which universities, and she told me Gally, CSUN, McDaniels, BYU, and I forget the last one. But I agree with you on Gally's so-called bi-bi program, I went through half of it before I quit and finished it somewhere else, with a lot more information.

I also find it rude when hearing people are in the same room with me chatting, then all of a sudden burst out laughing. If it's private, make it private!

Anne Marie,No idea who sells these pendants...copi...

2008-06-03T13:10:00.000-07:00

Anne Marie,

No idea who sells these pendants...copied them off the internet from a website which is apparently now defunct. I would like to give credit to the owner of the website but there's no info available.

As to your post, you offered good ideas. It doesn't bother you that hearing staff converse without signing or teaching conversing with student without signing, but it bugs the heck out of me...I consider it simply rude and consecending. In a classroom of hearing students, the students are aware of teacher conversing with student and can listen in to what is said between them while in a deaf classroom, the students in the classroom do not have the same opportunity. The point is not that "it's ok as long as they are not talking about me or anyone else in the room."

You probably don't know that for a fact because I know teachers DO talk about students while conversing without signing which is very reason why they elect not to sign. Indeed, it is not the case every time, but happens pretty often.

Therefore I think they need to follow the same rule as the deaf teachers - go elsewhere to have the conversation or wait until a later time when there are no students around.

It is interesting about your audiological reading immersion. Do you see success in this methodology?

Hey who is selling these ASL pendants?

2008-06-03T08:34:00.000-07:00

Hey who is selling these ASL pendants?

One charter bilingual school is now figuring out w...

2008-06-03T08:31:00.000-07:00

One charter bilingual school is now figuring out when to use total immersion for spoken language for about 40% students with CI and Hoh with aids with this need. First, they know for sure simcom is bad. It degrades both languages, no explanation needed. While these CI - Hoh students benefit bilingual ed and have the need for spoken language immersion at times especially for some of them who find phonetic reading their actual reading process, like my Hoh son, we have to figure out how to handle the challenge for access in the entire school setting where fully visual people are.

The school just formed a committee to sort out this issue. Definitely there will be certain places and times for immersion for both languages and using them both at other times. It all goes back to Martha's vineyard and families with mixed members, hearing, hoh, and deaf where ones cannot really tell speakers not to speak in front of them. Unless for private conversation, I agree, it should be in a private place, it is the same rule for hearing people anyway.

I have been in all signing environment all my life and remember seeing Hoh students speaking with each others at times and also with teachers in classroom, my reaction was and is still "That is fine with me, let them enjoy what they are benefitting as long as they are not talking about me or anyone, a simple rule." Now about my reaction not having access to spoken language..ok, if I push them out, we all lose. We will period. I already know that and if they are not talking about me or anyone, I do not care!

Ask Nover and other leading people, they say the same thing whether one likes it or not.

A synopsis here that I think works the best:

1) Sim com is never good except for a temporary need or if parties happen to be able to handle ok on their own - like my Hoh son with his Hoh friends or a non-signer happens to be temporarily in the scene.

2) Work out timeframe and place for immersion language use and where-when to use both.

3) When speaking among signers who do not have access to spoken language, rule: do not talk about anyone, go in a private room, same rule applies to signers.

4) Keep in mind, show respect for both languages, it is easy for spoken language to overtake in power, very easy. Speakers need to be aware of it because truthfully signers who are fully visual do not have anywhere else except their own school, home, and few places where they can be at home.

Rox5 universities that offer BiBi curriculum? Can ...

2008-06-03T07:53:00.000-07:00

Rox

5 universities that offer BiBi curriculum? Can you please share which ones these are? I don't think Gallaudet even offers one. WOU used to when Laurene (Gallimore) Sims ran the master program there but she moved to Gallaudet but I understand she moved there knowing they don't offer BiBi curriculum there - she accepted the job for the pay and prestige. I think perhaps Columbia University in Texas does....

Barb DiGiovanni is much more familiar about this than I. If she ever reads my post, perhaps she can jump in and offer the names of the universities unless you know?

I used to think the same thing about SimCom. I fi...

2008-06-03T07:00:00.000-07:00

I used to think the same thing about SimCom. I finally realized the stupidity of it when I went to Gally and took a class with a SimCom teacher. Wow! There is SO much information that is lost when one tries to use two languages at once.

I think one possible solution is to require all dhh teachers to get their teaching certificate from a school that supports the bi-bi philosophy. But I know that takes time and is difficult to implement, especially when only 5 universities really have a bi-bi curriculum.

Anonymous #4Depends on which charter school you se...

2008-06-02T19:57:00.000-07:00

Anonymous #4

Depends on which charter school you send your child. Most states don't require charter school teachers to be certified or to teach in the field of their studies...they are not required to conform to NCLB guidelines.

I know because I taught at one once. I taught for several years and was never certified. The curriculum was poor. The teachers were not high quality. The hierarchy was not well structured. A lot of favoritism and nepotism going on. I could go on and on...I know only of a few charter schools with good reputations - Jean Massieu in Utah, Metro Day in St Paul, Minn...Learning Tree Center in Mass...it is more a private school...So these are 3 that popped in mind at moments notice. I am sure I missed a few more. The rest of charter schools are highly questionable, especially the one I used to work at.

I suggest you or hope you did some checking on your child's school unless your child attends one of the 3 schools I listed.

thats why we are sending our children to charter s...

2008-06-02T19:14:00.000-07:00

thats why we are sending our children to charter school

and we are happy with that decision.

Anonymous #2You have something against Steve Nover...

2008-06-02T18:10:00.000-07:00

Anonymous #2

You have something against Steve Nover? Have anything to share?

Anonymous #1

Yeah - what is the cure to all those diseases ailing our schools? I think we need to look to the top schools for the deaf as our models. Strong deaf community, high rate of deaf administrators and teachers are key to higher academic performance and to reduce audism and ignorance and/or outdated philsophy on deaf education.

Concidentially, anonymous #1, these top schools for the deaf utilize CAEBER in their classrooms. CAEBER improves academic performance especially for those from non-signing homes.

And folks, can you be more creative with your identities rather than simply pressing the anonymous button? Think up of a pseudoym rather than using your real name. Thanks.

How can this guy be responsible?

2008-06-02T15:40:00.000-07:00

How can this guy be responsible?

"CAEBER and its 10-15 years worth of research."10-...

2008-06-02T15:25:00.000-07:00

"CAEBER and its 10-15 years worth of research."

10-15 years worth!? Show us the research.

Peer-reviewed preferred.

They have done nothing but talk, talk, talk...

With all due respect, somebody just gotta tell "The Man" by the name of Dr. Nover. By being eternally clueless, he IS making things difficult for us, truth be told.

True! True! Well described.Is it possible to tu...

2008-06-02T14:31:00.000-07:00

True! True! Well described.

Is it possible to turn this around?